We have a battle between truth versus money

A conversation with Dr. Aseem Malhotra

This interview appeared first in Optimist magazine, October/November 2024.

I meet the well known activist cardiologist in a restaurant at the top floor of his hotel, next to the train station. He visits The Netherlands for the weekend to promote his message opposing the power of Big Food and Big Pharma and emphasizing patient autonomy and life style solutions. The last two years he has become a controversial voice because of his views on Covid vaccinations. But I don't want to talk about these, rather I'm interested in the man behind the activist. Therefore I start by showing a front cover of a magazine that I picked up from the station, picturing an attractive young representative of Generation Z, perfectly dressed up, insecurely looking into the camera.

Dr. Malhotra, in this popular magazine a front page article appeared discussing that more and more young people of Generation Z are depressed, fearful and burnt out. Why do you think that is?

"I think one of the main causes behind the deteriorating mental health, not just of Generation Z, but of children and adults in general, are structural problems in our society. We call them biopsychosocial problems. We are creating a culture which is more and more selfish, individualistic and materialistic. Where values are primarily placed upon wealth, possessions, image and status. And then it's exacerbated by social media. When you look at the evidence in science of psychology on what has the most important impact on optimising someone's mental health, it is the opposite of that. The most important determinant of mental well-being is meaningful relationships, connection with each other, connection with nature, connection with our work."

"But an opposite culture is being created by big corporations that have become the dominant force in our society. And that corporate culture is purely based upon how we exploit other human beings to make money. That means by deception."

"One of the biggest issues that's going on in society today is that we have a battle of truth versus money. And a battle between materialism versus spirituality. "

"The social media algorithms exacerbate anxieties and status and image as most important values, rather than actually the basics of acting within honesty and integrity and being authentic. Social media in many ways portrays an image of people which is not authentic."

Of course you're not generation Z, but have you been influenced by those social media forces yourself?

"Yes, absolutely. Part of my understanding of this comes from my own addiction. In social media there is an engineered addiction to manipulate the masses for commercial gain."

So are you addicted to social media? Do you look for example how many views your posts have?

"Yeah, absolutely. 100%."

So do you need to fight that? Do you need to resist?

"It's a very good question.So for me personally, having been someone that was not wanting to be engaged in social media at all, I only got engaged in it because people encouraged me for the purposes of my activism. So for me personally, my use of social media as a channel is purely for my activism. You'll find very rarely posts of me writing anything other than to do with the work I'm doing to help educate people on mental, physical, social well-being. "

So, but even despite that, you still get you get caught up.

"It's a bit of a trap. 100%."

For myself it sometimes feels indeed an ego trap. Like, wow, posts about myself have been viewed by 150,000 people.

"Yeah, absolutely. The problem is with all the addictions you need a greater dose to maintain the same level of contentment. I was able to get on BBC news and talk about the excess deaths in relation to vaccines and it had 25 million views. The same number of views as the Queen's funeral. Which for me is great, giving people a more complete version of events to understand the vaccine. However, that is now my gold standard, and I've gone to a point where I'm disappointed if a post doesn't have a million views. But then I try to distance myself from it."

I think this distance is important. The more your ego is at risk by social media the more time you need for reflection, don't you agree?

"Sure. I agree. But I don't think for me necessarily it's about ego, because my focus is on the message having impact. I don't personalise it. I'm able to distance myself. So my disappointment is okay. This message is not having the impact of the other messages. It still comes into a little bit of ego, but it's more focussed on the message rather than me. I'd be very happy to lead a quiet life. I get stopped in the street everywhere I go now, all over the world and it's very nice. People are emotional, they say thank you. But I don't want to be that person, I'd rather have an influence behind the scenes."

So you see yourself as an instrument.

"I'm just a medium. I'm a medium for a message."

But on the other hand, it's you that's the medium. So you have to keep yourself in a healthy state. How do you keep your optimism? How do you keep your drive in this constellation?

"My relentless pursuit of objective truth, curiosity, love of human beings, being privileged to have had two of the most amazing parents anyone could wish for in terms of their integrity, their love and compassion. That keeps me going.

Also the feedback from patients that get better with the things I do. So that gives me drive. People have said over the years, even pre-pandemic, I'm shocked that you're still going, you're still alive. I'm amazed you're still standing. So I think there's something in me which is obviously resilient. The core is knowing that my intentions and my actions are coming from a place of purity. It's purity that gives me a cloak of strength."

Do you feel that this is some sort of sacrifice, some sort of divine influence that leads you?

"It's very spiritual. I think we grow through suffering. Suffering is what makes us who we are and makes us wiser. I look at ancient wisdom. I look at what people before me have gone through, far worse. And that makes me think, well, I'm not a victim. Everybody suffers in different ways. I'm optimistic. I have hope. That despite all these struggles, there is a light at the end of the tunnel."

Do you consider yourself bicultural, having partly Indian and partly British heritage?

"Yes, absolutely. I'm proud of both."

So your Indian heritage, I suppose it's Hinduism, does that have an optimistic world view?

"I think it has. I was born a Hindu and I have a lot of respect for Hindu tradition. But my personal philosophy, what resonates most with me in terms of personal outlook is Buddhism. It's better described as a science of the mind rather than a religion. I'm a root cause guy, and I'm curious about human behaviour. I'm examining myself and all of what I've gone through. What would I want? How am I going to try and reach a state of optimal mental, physical, and social well-being? I'm obsessed with making sure that I am doing the best I can. And then I want to share that knowledge with other people."

"It's important to mention that Buddha taught us that you don't have to believe in a God to lead a moral and spiritual life. Whatever people find that resonates with them, that gives them strength and hope is fine. Whether it's Russell Brand embracing Christianity more recently, which I think is great. There are amazing teachings from the Bible, from all religions."

"I learned from all religions, but but what resonates most with me is understanding the root of human suffering. This is not just about trauma, the basic, broad definition of human suffering is unsatisfactoriness with daily living. That's what's happening with the kids: what they think they should try and achieve: materialism, status, image. This is distracting them from actually just being inward, connecting with other people and being authentic."

"We know that materialism doesn't bring enhanced mental health. In fact, there's a wealth of research it's the opposite. The more materialist you are, the less happy, the less mental well-being you have."

So that that would be a lesson for for Generation Z?

"Yes."

I have two more questions. One is, are there things in the previous three years, let's say from the start of the Covid crisis that you regret?

"I'm not I'm not the type of person that lives with regrets. I see every situation that one goes through as an opportunity for learning. Even if you make a mistake, I see it as an opportunity for learning. Because making mistakes is a part of human existence. The most important is that we act from a place of good and pure intent."

"Having said that, if there was something that I regret more than anything else in my life right now, partly because it's had a negative effect on me mentally, has been taking the Covid vaccine."

And maybe even promoting it?

"I don't have that much regret for the promotion part if you look back at the interview I did, because it was at a very specific early time in the pandemic and actually still stands up to some scrutiny: high risk people from ethnic minority groups who weren't taking it. We were only offering it to those high risk people at that time. I also put it in the context of vaccines being the safest of all pharmacological interventions. Even the people that were sceptical about these vaccines could not have predicted how bad these would turn out to be."

"For me personally, as someone in his early 40s who was fit and active and healthy, there was no reason to have it. I thought I was going to maybe protect patients from getting Covid, but genuinely, I didn't think there was a reason for me to have it."

"If you look at the the data now, there is an argument to be made that there was more good than harm taking the vaccine for high risk people at the early stage of the pandemic. However, because the risk rate of serious adverse events is so high, 1 in 800, I don't believe it should have been given to a single human. Having said that, there's not been a single person that's come forward saying, Doctor Malhotra, I took the vaccine because of you and now I've been harmed. I would apologise to that person."

You were mentioning pure intent. Actually, this was my first question, but I skipped it. This question was, how can you remain optimist in a world ruled by psychopaths? Bad intent people.

"Because the opposite of optimism is pessimism, and pessimism is surrender. And despair is defeat. And I'm not that guy. I will keep fighting till the very end."

Then then my last question is perfect. What text would you like on your gravestone?

"My grave stone? Bloody hell…", the longest silence of the interview. Then he answers decidedly. "Just a message. Love and truth are the answer.”

Beautiful.

"No one has ever asked me that question."