Anastasia Trofimova: There is a lot of life in the midst of a war

An interview

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The day after the two screenings of her documentary "Russians at War" in The Hague, The Netherlands, March 26th and 27th, I met with filmmaker Anastasia Trofimova in the lobby of her hotel.

We talked for about an hour, but when I stopped the recording, Anastasia had one more thing to say.

"One last thing I have to say is that as someone who has seen all the ugliness of this war first-hand, I wish for Europeans never to see it. Despite the certain politicians who seem to be playing with the possibility of war and sewing fears to mobilize people. You are Europe for a reason, you have democratic rights, you have a voice. Nobody wins in a war. And this war is incredibly violent. It takes away thousands of lives every day. I wish all of us peace."

Over a cup of coffee (can I have more cream and sugar please?) we started with the year 2016, when I visited Russia for the last time. Running the Moscow marathon in 3:29:50. Only nine years ago, when Russia was a friendly country, and no one raised an eyebrow for going there. If I would run the Moscow Marathon today, it would be equivalent to running a marathon in Nazi Germany.

"In 2016, I was working at Russia Today Documentary, RTD, which at that point was broadcast across Europe. I was interested in looking outwards then, at the stories of other countries. In 2016, I made “Congo, My Precious” about the resource curse in the Democratic Republic of Congo and “Iraqi Safe House”, about the first private orphanage in Baghdad, Iraq."

Her motivation for making this documentary, Russians at War, was the urgency for peace.

"Some people told me: "It's too early for this film. It should come out in five years, ten years, after the war". I disagree. I want to show the full ugliness of the war now, as a force for peace. Often we - media – are a bit like vultures. We descend on the corpse once it's dead and we start picking at it, analyzing it. After the cycle of war is complete, after the politicians have shaken hands, the fear and hatred subside and we can finally see each other as people. I want to try to break the cycle of war and try to see each other as people now. "

She calls it an observational documentary, to show the reality of war at the front lines, from the Russian side. She embedded clandistinely within a Russian front line brigade, by just taking the bus.

"There are buses going about three times a day from Moskow to Donetsk and other cities. They cost about €30. Just jump on the bus and 15 hours later you're in the war. Because Russia considers these lands to be new Russian territory, you can enter it easily if you have a Russian passport."

Still it took her a long time to find a soldier, Ilya, who allowed her to follow him to the front. The field commanders there “didn’t really allow me to stay, but didn’t kick me out either”.

The filmmaker had explained her access the day before, during the Q&A after the screening in the The Hague venue “Utopia”. This was the second, a public screening of the documentary, without the 30 protesters (who did not see the film) that appeared at the first, academic, screening the day before. There, one of the professors called the documentary “Russian propaganda”, for example because of the misinformation of soldiers claiming that Ukraine bombed civilians in the Donbas region in 2014. I asked Anastasia for her opinion on this.

"The professor is repeating narratives that deny the existence of people like Ilya. Ilya is Ukrainian, whose house and business were bombed in 2014 by Ukraine. He took me to his bombed flat in Donetsk."

"Other people in Donbas told me that they lost homes and businesses when the Ukrainian aviation bombed Donetsk and other civilian areas in a “anti-terrorist operation” to destroy the “separatists”. Their stories should be logged with international organizations such as the ICC the OSCE. It does not justify Russia using even bigger force to attack Ukraine. Militarization and the use of violence is never the answer because there’s always a chance for escalation."

The professor, Bart Schuurman was appointed three months ago at Leiden University on Terrorism and Political Violence. After the academic screening he read a statement, claiming a Russian propaganda film was shown. He is disappointed that it was organized without context. That soldiers were allowed to criticize the West and NATO and tell lies about Crimea and Donbas without contradiction from the filmmaker. He also asks how she can be embedded as an independent filmmaker in a country where freedom of speech is suppressed, suggesting she is working for the Russian government.

“You cannot call anything you don’t agree with “propaganda”, especially in an observational documentary. Unfortunately, the professor could not say where the propaganda was, despite being pressured by members of the audience. The Q&A finished with him even calling the audience “a bunch of Covid-deniers”, which was quite unacademic of him and elicited booing. I asked about this gentleman. I was told that he started a project on Russian disinformation only two weeks ago. Someone from the audience asked him if he was an expert on Russia, and he said "no".

"Seems like the gentleman just got the job. He has to prove himself to be a hawk. He probably cannot be seen as a dove while looking for Russian disinformation. So, in a way, from a purely human point of view, I understand the man, trying to prove himself, but it is unfortunate that he's doing it potentially at the expense of his own country. Because what would happen if, God forbid, Russia and Europe went to war with each other? I think none of us would have a future. As we say, the Third World War will be fought with nukes, and the fourth one will be fought with sticks and stones."

Most people I have talked to, and also the majority of the academics in the academic setting - with the notable exception of Professor Schuurman - can't see how your documentary can be seen as Russian Propaganda. The only thing that I can think of hindering the war effort is depicting Russians as human beings.

"It is fascinating how quickly the Ukrainian state was rushing to call this movie, which they have not seen, “propaganda”. From what we’ve heard, it was very important to try to silence this film, because it depicts the “enemy” as human and it’s harder to wage war without dehumanization."

In the Q&A the day before the filmmaker was asked whether she was pro-Russia or pro-Ukraine. She had replied vehemently: "Neither, I am pro-Peace. If you are either pro-Russia or pro-Ukraine you are: pro-War". She had also been asked whether she ever had been afraid. "The worst thing that could happen in my life, already happened, and this is this war". Peace is her overarching motivation, and for that she is prepared to give her life. In true Russian tradition.

"Russians historically could sacrifice for grand ideas, whether it’s the motherland, socialism in the past: their well-being, their comfort. Perhaps that's part of the difference between Europeans and Russians. There's always a desire to look for something greater than oneself. I saw a lot of Western leaders who said that as soon as the first coffins will start coming home to Russia, people will rise up and the war will be over. That is such a misunderstanding of the Russian mentality."

Suddenly I realize that I'm interviewing for The Optimist magazine, and my mind races to find the optimism in the documentary. I remember the most hopeful scene where a female medic girl gets a marriage proposal from a fellow medic, and later on in the documentary she was pregnant. I ask what happened to the couple.

"They got married, and she's raising their daughter in Russia. He unfortunately is still fighting because he's not allowed to leave the front. Women are when they get pregnant, but men are not. It is a fascinating phenomenon that there's a lot of life in the midst of a war. Sadly, within the medics unit, who were 12 to 15 when I left, half of them are dead."

In the movie the pregnant medic said, I will never talk about this war to my child. She wanted to talk about the great Russian empire, but not this war. Why?

"I think her specific concern was that she didn't know how to explain this war, what it was fought for. There is a feeling among the soldiers and the civilians that this war is almost artificial. For me, this was a very strange war, because usually when you go to war zones and you're filming soldiers, you feel hatred towards the enemy. And here there was none."

"Of course it is going to be a huge trauma for the soldiers. I asked them: what are you guys gonna tell people after the war? And most of them said: we will not say a thing. Why? Because people won't understand. How do you explain to someone in regular civilian life the rules of existence here? "

Are you traumatized?

"Well, it's not my first war. It's difficult for me to answer that question because in Russia in general, we have a collective historical trauma that is just part of our identity. From World War II, it seems like every 20 years there is some sort of conflict. Afghanistan, the two Chechen wars. All these recent traumas have never been resolved from the point of view of the individual human being."

Are you an optimist?

"Yes I am. The more death you see, the more you value life. The more war you see, the more you value peace."

"I've seen enough wars. We have a very short time in our lives, and I want to try to waft away the fog of war and say: no, let’s not allow the dehumanization to happen, nor the handle of the war’s meat grinder make its full circle. Be the small pebble in this war machine that breaks it. That's my idealistic hope."

My last question: did you bring a souvenir with you from the front line?

"One of the soldiers gave me a compass. The soldiers understood what I was doing and why I wanted to make this film. We didn't know what the reaction of the state would be. A lot of the soldiers that I spoke about this film were concerned for my safety. What's going to happen to you? And then one of them gave me a compass and said: let this guide you. I still have it, and carry it everywhere I go."

Notes

A Dutch language version of this article the July/August issue (p. 72-75) of The Optimist magazine (https://theoptimist.nl/). I thank the editor for permission to prepublish the interview.

The documentary film is being screened in cinemas across Europe.In several countries, scheduled screenings have been cancelled under Ukrainian pressure.

Next screenings

April 14th, Belgrade. https://www.mtsdvorana.rs/film/rusi-u-ratu

Anastasia Trofimova’s website: https://trofimova.works/, contact her if your cinema is interested in screening this documentary.

Pay Per View is available here.

Official Trailer